Especial día del niño: aborto y delincuencia

Publicado por Francisco Campos

Archivo: 473 artículos

por Francisco Campos

Pese a que a mucha gente no le parezca correcto porque atenta en contra de las “leyes de Dios”, existe una relación directa entre el aborto y la disminución de la delincuencia en un plazo de veinte  a treinta años. El principal ejemplo es el descrito en un capítulo del libro Freakonomics, el cual señala que debido a la aprobación de una ley de aborto en 1973 en el estado de Nueva York, los índices de criminalidad y violencia disminuyeron considerablemente en casi quince años. Le duela a quien le duela.

El  capítulo en cuestión, se basaba en la relación hecha por  John Donohue, académico de Yale, llamado “El impacto de la legalización del aborto en el crimen” . Dicho estudio señalaba que luego de la aprobación de la Ley Federal de Aborto en 1973, los índices de delincuencia habían disminuido hasta en un 50% en los estados que si tenían ley de aborto.

Por supuesto que los autores del libro – el economista de Chicago Steven Levitt y el periodista del New York Times Stephen Dubner –  fueron criticados tanto por la derecha como por la izquierda, al mismo tiempo que fueron  tildados de fascistas, racistas, sacrílegos, y un sin fin de epítetos similares, por el simple hecho de haber una relación coherente y que se remitía exclusivamente al estudio de los datos e índices de criminalidad en el estado de Nueva York.

Como podrán ver en el gráfico que se adjunta a continuación, los países  más pacíficos del mundo y con menor tasa de delincuencia (1), son aquellos que cuentan con leyes de aborto, por lo que – si nos remitimos exclusivamente a los datos – podemos afirmar que no resulta tan descabellada la relación hecha por los autores de Freakonomics.

grafico1

Si bien el gráfico resulta bastante claro y explicativo, es necesario ahondar un poco más en esta relación, ya que, no solamente basta con aprobar el aborto y tema resuelto debido a que esto acarrearía consecuencias sociales mayores, tales como la disminución de la natalidad y por el consiguiente, el envejecimiento de la población.

Hipotéticamente, para que  se produzca una efectiva disminución de los índices de delincuencia y violencia es necesario realizar un control de las madres de “potenciales” delincuentes, vale decir, madres en situación vulnerable cuyo embarazo podría devenir en el nacimiento de alguien peligroso.  Entonces, se hace un seguimiento a aquellas madres que presenten antecedentes de drogadicción, delincuencia y bajo nivel socio económico para luego realizar una evaluación del riesgo que implicaría que dicho embarazo termine con éxito.

En vista de lo anterior, queda claro que una ley de aborto no significa la panacea, si no que también involucra una fuerte participación del Estado a través de los órganos pertinentes para que el proceso se desarrolle con éxito.

Ahora bien, el tema del aborto nos lleva a otro punto de relevancia: la marginalidad. Para nadie es un misterio que hijos no deseados nacidos en un ambiente “complicado” influye directamente en  el aumento de pobreza debido a que gran parte de estas familias no tienen los medios necesarios para mantener a un nuevo miembro de la tribu (perdón, pero no me aguanté la salida de madre), de manera que aquí se hace necesaria nuevamente la intervención del Estado a través de políticas claras de prevención del embarazo no deseado.

Los que piensan que un hijo es siempre una bendición y que “sobre la marcha se arregla la carga”, por favor, denle una segunda vuelta. Lisa y llanamente existen familias que no pueden hacerse cargo de un hijo por diversos factores, entonces, desde la concepción estaríamos asegurándole al niño una vida terrible, salvo contadas excepciones.

Como siempre sucede en Chil,e cada vez que se intenta abordar estos temas, surgen voces inspiradas en criterios ideológicos y morales que se oponen a cualquier atisbo de mejoras en el control de la natalidad y, aun más, al aborto. Para este sector ultra conservador de nuestra sociedad siempre existe una solución,  por que “la vida es sagrada”, de manera que para ellos la solución óptima en caso de un embarazo no deseado sería la adopción.

Sin embargo, los procesos de adopción en Chile son sumamente engorrosos y burocráticos debido a que, muchas veces quienes entregan sus hijos en adopción, luego quieren recuperar la tuición pese a no estar calificados. También sucede en que el trámite de adopción se demora más de la cuenta mientras los niños tienen que esperar meses y años en hogares para menores, los cuales están sumamente lejos del óptimo.

Entonces, podríamos decir que quienes estan contra el aborto a cualquier costo — incluso la vida de la madre ya que también se oponen al aborto terapéutico – , son pro vida, aunque el resultado de la vida que se protege sea una vida de mierda.

Lo anterior nos lleva a otra arista del problema y tiene que ver con los índices de desarrollo humano. Según el matemático chileno radicado en Noruega – uno de los países con menores índices de victimización y delincuencia -, Dante Kalise, “no es posible permitir el nacimiento de niños a diestra y siniestra si no somos capaces de asegurarles un mínimo de desarrollo en términos sociales que les ofrezca opciones más interesantes que ser delincuentes o mano de obra barata. La misma gente que habla de derecho a la vida debiese decir la frase completa, es decir, derecho a una vida de mierda”

Como podemos ver en el gráfico adjuntado a continuación, curiosamente los países con mayor índice de desarrollo humano son aquellos que cuentan con ley de aborto (2).

1

En relación a este  último dato, Kalise señala  que “hay que ser cuidadoso en esta relación debido a que se podría desprender erróneamente que el aborto es sinónimo de desarrollo humano. Una lectura más apropiada es que se trata de economías o sociedades sensatas, que entienden que la planificación familiar es fundamental para el desarrollo de sus individuos. Se la da la posibilidad a los ciudadanos de no traer al mundo gente a la cual no podrán darle lo necesario para que se integren de buen modo a éstas. El desarrollo humano es un problema técnico, no se trata de gente feliz bailando en el bosque, se trata de cuánto dinero ganas, cuánto es necesario para mantener una familia, para pagar vivienda, educación y salud. Quizás la principal lección subyacente en estas cifras, válidas tanto para el aborto como para una serie de temas contingentes, es que los criterios de decisión debieran ser técnicos y no ideológicos. Del mismo modo que usualmente pediríamos un crédito en el banco con la menor tasa de interés y no necesariamente en aquél con las cajeras más sonrientes, nuestras políticas como país no debiesen estar basadas en la existencia del alma, en entes superiores o profetas iluminados. ”.

Como podemos ver, el problema de la delincuencia infantil y juvenil no se soluciona con la internación provisoria o permanente en un centro del Sename o con  la dosis justa de cariño y rigor, como señaló LUN en la edición de ayer. Al parecer, el problema se soluciona imponiendo criterios técnicos por sobre manoseadas disposiciones religiosas e ideológicas.

Para influir tendenciosamente en nuestros lectores, aplicamos el Estilo Agustín, e incluimos un par de videos que hablan por si solos

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2HsuEYsVvw[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nT_Jbluo70[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYMrrPEuxhg[/youtube]

(1) Gráfico construido por Global Peace Index en base a los datos aportados por el  United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems y que contemplan los delitos que provocan mayor victimización en la población: asesinatos, robos con violencia, violaciones y narcotráfico en relación al total de la población.  Además, para la elaboración del raking  se consideran otros factores como los conflictos internos y relacionados con atentados terroristas,  conflictos religiosos, étnicos y de refugiados. Esta es la  razón por la cual Chile,  pese a tener una mayor cantidad proporcional de delitos graves en relación a su población  que países como España, Holanda, Inglaterra o Italia,  ocupa un lugar más alto que estos países, los cuales pierden puntos por los factores anteriormente mencionados.  Sin embargo, al desglosar los datos y remitirse exclusivamente a los índices de criminalidad, el resultado será muy diferente.

(2) Reporte del desarrollo humano de Las Naciones Unidas 2007 – 2008.

Comentarios publicados en "Especial día del niño: aborto y delincuencia"

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  • pepo

    Como dice -aunque en otras palabras- Dante: no confundir correlación con causalidad.

  • des

    toda la razound, el estado tiene que hacerse cargo, e implementar la ley de aborto, la pae, y todo esos temas, con una planificacion bien hecha para genere algun cambio, sino cizarros habra por todas partes, lo que no significa que familias pobres no puedan tener hijos, sino que todos podamos decidir
    shao babykiller

  • Hacemos una relación entre delincuencia y aborto y llegamos a la conclusión de que todo mejora cuando el aborto entra en juego, no?
    Parto por aclarar que mi postura frente al aborto es a favor, pero considero que el tema que se plantea en esta columna es un pelín tirado de las mechas.
    Tan tirado de las mechas como pensar que para eliminar el polvo de la casa, es mejor no tener casa.
    O para evitar ser asaltado, mejor me evito salir de la casa.

    En esta linda cadena de la vida, se estan saltando una etapa: educación.

  • Pablo

    dos palabras para esta crónica: NACISMO PURO

  • cristobal.castillo

    ¿ porqué ?

  • diego

    estoy a favor del aborto pero no por los motivos aqui planteados. Creo que como dice Ignacio es cortar por lo mas fino simplemente.
    chao

  • Mmmmm, no se, yo igual soy pro aborto, pero no creo que debamos mirarlo como una solucion a la delincuencia, como lo dice un joven arriba, podemos hacer una estadistica de que la gente que no sale de su casa es la que menos asaltan en la calle o tambien puede se le puede ocurrir a algun alcalde de turno que las botillerias se serraran a las 11 de la noche para reducir el alcoholismo y los accidentes qeu esto mismo causa.
    Igual si se toma solamente desde el punto de vista de que es una estadistica es muy valido, pero si lo tomamos como un argumento mas para tener ley de aborto, lo encuentro macabro.
    Aborto Legal, Seguro y Gratuito, pero por un derecho legitimo de las mujeres y no por este tipo de estadisticas.

  • soy partidario de la pildora del dia despues y creo que tiene razon el articulo por una ecuacion simple:
    -Cual es el sector de la población más expuesto a terminar como delincuente?
    -Cual es el sector de la población donde las tasas de natalidad son las más peligrosamente altas?
    -Cual es el sector de la población donde las familias son más numerosas (pero no porq

  • Diego Lazo

    Hace rato que en los países desarrollados nombrados en el artículo se asume el aborto como solución a problemas sociales (pobreza, delincuencia). También se puede entender como una forma de protejer el medio ambiente (menos miembros de la tribu ayuda a controlar la sobrepoblación que enfrentamos).
    Los datos técnicos duros están y en Chile es hora de realizar un debate serio sobre el tema. El único medio que ha sido capaz de ponerlo en discusión ha sido The Clinic y necesitamos que también llegue a medios aún más masivos.
    Nuestro país sufre de tener implantada una moral católica que necesita ser extirpada de raíz. Creo en las religiones, en el derecho a practicar una fe, pero también creo que un grupo no puede imponer su ideología sobre el resto. Solucionar esto es el primer paso que debemos dar.

  • cristobal.castillo

    yo quiero saber que tiene de nazi esta wea segun Pablo

  • Claudio

    Hola, aunque no esté de acuerdo con la correlación realizada, no porque tenga algo en contra del aborto en contrario, sino porque prefiero enfocar la discusión de un modo distinto. Quisiera rescatar algo, creo que el debate público a parte de ser pobre, llevamos años entrampados en una discusión valorica (que personalmente considero artificiosa y sofista), podríamos simplemente enfocar el aborto como un tema de política pública desde otra forma, no preguntarnos si el feto es persona o no, si tiene alma o no, que dice en la biblia, que dice el papa, que dice Piñera, si en un caso si y en otro no, si es terapéutico o no.. blah blah, sino de una manera sutilmente distinta, este es un ejemplo de las formas de enfocarlo, yo personalmente preferiría enfocarlo como política de cuidado de las mujeres, algo así como mirar lindas tablitas de cuantas mujeres mueren al año o resultan dañadas de por vida, por realizarse abortos en lindas clínicas ilegales con medicuchos.. Saludos.

  • Diego Lazo

    Claudio,

    A mi me encantaría que la legalización del aborto se tome como un tema de derechos civiles, salud pública, control de natalidad, etc. Lamentablemente en Chile éste tipo de decisiones son juzgadas y legisladas moralmente de acuerdo al dogma acérrimo de unos pocos. Si sigue existiendo la discusión valórica es porque no hemos avanzado nada al respecto y eso es lo que hay que cambiar.

  • para los que no leyeron bien, en ningun caso se señala que el aborto es la solucion final para la delincuencia sino que se le relaciona con otros factores de igual o mas importancia como lo son el desarrollo humano, la participacion del estado para asegurar el bienestar de ciudadanos y politicas publicas eficientes de educacion sexual y que permitan una optima planificacion familiar. el aborto, no es un fin en si mismo, si no que mas bien algo que puede contribuir.
    como dice dante en el articulo, no tiene mucho sentido traer niños al mundo a diestra y siniestra si no somos capaces de asegurarles lo minimo.
    y para el que cree que se trata de nazismo, ojala te viole shaquille oneall

  • Isabel

    ¿a quién estan tratando de convencer con este tipo de argumentos?
    ¿a la derecha fascista que quiere que la gente más pobre disminuya en número?
    Yo estoy a favor del aborto, pero creo que el argumento por una supuesta disminución de la delincuencia es una salida facil para tratar el problema de la pobreza chilena. Probablemente, en los paises del estudio, el índice de delincuencia bajó por diversas razones, como una mejor educación entre tantas otras, mayor ingreso per capita, etc. Sociedades mejor educadas y más amplias de mente probablemente están a favor del aborto, sociedades con mejor educación probablemente tengan menores indices de delincuencia.
    ¿Por qué mejor no hacemos la relación entre deserción escolar y delincuencia infantil?

    No creo que sea una ecuación tan simple de resolver como abort o= menos delincuencia

    Frases notables del «genio» fascista que escribio esto

    «es necesario realizar un control de las madres de “potenciales” delincuentes, vale decir, madres en situación vulnerable cuyo embarazo podría devenir en el nacimiento de alguien peligroso»

    «gran parte de estas familias no tienen los medios necesarios para mantener a un nuevo miembro de la tribu (perdón, pero no me aguanté la salida de madre)»

  • yo sigo sin entender cual puede ser el trasfondo facista del articulo. son datos por el amor de dios! los datos no tienen ideologia de ningun tipo! y por segunda vez, lean bien la cuestion y no se queden con lo del aborto, el cual – nuevamente les digo – no a sido planteado como una solucion final y definitiva al problema de la delincuencia.

    isabel, pelotuda, lo unico que quiere «la derecha facista» es que aumente la mano de obra barata, por eso se opone tan tenazmente al aborto y a los metodos de control de natalidad. ademas, la desercion escolar es un factor minimo en lo que se refiere a la delincuencia, pq esta es transversal y no es un requisito fundamental estar o no en un colegio para ser delincuente. En vista de lo anterior, la relacion no tiene sentido.

    hasta cuando con la mojigateria de defender todo lo politicamente correcto de la boca para afuera y si no lo haces, eres facista. eso es una dicotomia sumamente basica y simplista, pero claro, por foro se pueden dar la libertad de aparentar de ser unas madres teresas y tratar de facho a todo el mundo, ademas, de picarlas de tolerantes y conciliadores.

    y bueno con respecto a la salida de madre, es solo una broma, pero claro, si hubiese salido en el clinic que es un medio «progre» se habria entendido el sarcasmo, pero como salio en dsr que es un medio facho y cuico, se entiende literalmente. cuec.

    y bueno, con respecto a la salida

  • Quisiera reiterar algunos puntos.
    Primero, que el aborto debiera ser un derecho por razones que tienen que ver fundamentalmente con libertades civiles. Segundo, que no tiene nada de fascista darle el derecho a una mujer a decidir si quiere o es capaz de tener un hijo en una sociedad que no la ayudará en nada a ello.

    Lamentablemente la cifra en cuestión es políticamente incorrecta, pero hay que mirarla en la dirección correcta. Tener una ley de aborto prácticamente garantiza una disminución considerable en los índices de delincuencia, lo que no significa que sea ésta la única forma de combatirla. Ciertamente que la eduación y un buen sistema de seguridad social son fundamentales, en tanto el problema no es que nacen delincuentes, sino que la sociedad de la forma en que la HEMOS estructurado es tan jodida que es altamente probable que al nacer en una situación de riesgo social, el individuo, ante la falta de oportunidades, se convierta en un paria y/o delicuente.

    Por último, quisiera insistir en lo importante que es que empecemos a pensar este tipo de temas de forma más técnica y dejando de lados las consideraciones ideológicas.

    Por cierto, espero que la gente que dice que la educación es la solución para todos los problemas de la sociedad se haya dado cuenta que nuestro sistema educativo es pésimo, y que aún teniendo uno bueno, hay temas de seguridad social, calidad de trabajo, vivienda y un millón de cosas más por resolver. Y lo más importante, que realmente se encuentren haciendo algo por el país que sea más valioso que manifestarse en contra del aborto y cualquier otra reforma social.

  • El que esté contra el aborto debiera estar a favor de una ley que lo permita y regule. No hay manera de saber exactamente cuantos abortos hay cada año pero la cifra clasica difundida por el clinic es 200.000 (pico idea como lo calcularon) y la mas baja que he visto impresa 75.000 (era una entrevista de un cirujano que estaba especulando). Al año se meten presas a menos de diez personas por estos delitos, lo busqué en el informe anual de los pacos del ine de un par de años. Luego la ley que prohibe el aborto es impractica y su aplicacion no es viable (pico idea cuantos pacos o carceles se necesitaria para pasar de 10 presos a 200.000). Mas importante que eso estos abortos se realizan sin estandares obligatorios de procedimiento e higiene. Lo que significa que no son abortos en la cuarta o quinta semana si no que pueden ser bastante despues, que puede haber casos en que la madre quiera el niño y la familia decida por ella, que NO PODEMOS SABER CUANTOS SON Y POR LO MISMO ES IMPOSIBLE TRABAJAR PARA DISMINUIRLOS y que otros medios anticonceptivos de emergencia son estigmatizados por abortivos gratuitamente y prohibidos. La reduccion de la delincuencia es un factor significativo pero no es el que justifica el cambio. Se debiera legalizar el aborto porque las mujeres tienen derecho a escoger sobre su cuerpo. Nadie quiere hacer abortar a las mujeres que no quieran abortar. La weá empelotante es que dentro de todo nadie le enseña a las mujeres que son responsables por asegurarse los medios para mantener a los hijos antes de preñarse, o como tener una sexualidad normal sin hacerlo, encima de latinoamerica chile es el pais en que las mujeres tienen menor insercion laboral y encima de eso no hay aborto legal y se esta atacando la anticoncepcion de emergencia. Es pura mierda cavernicola.

  • Caro C

    El comentario mas significativo de todos los que han hecho aqui fue el número 1:
    Correlacion no implica causalidad.

    FC, hazte un favor a ti mismo y a tus lectores y estudia algo de bioestadística, para que entiendas que el hecho de que dos eventos en forma correlacional no implica que uno es la causa del otro.
    Como bien tu dices, los datos son datos y no tienen ideologías. Lo ridículo es la interpretación con la que los presentas, asumiendo y afirmando que A es causa de B solo porque A podría estar relacionado con B.

    Lo siento, pero estas haciendo lo mismo que los curas que usan argumentos ridículos contra el aborto: desprestigiando una discusión que es necesaria. Gracias a este tipo de salidas de madre es que no se ha podido legislar sobre el aborto.

  • Isabel

    FC ,quizás exagero llamándote fascista, asi tal cual tu juegas a dartelas de irónico en tu articulo. Pero en fin, tampoco me interesa hacer un ataque contra ti
    Si me molesta el articulo es porque aleja la discusión sobre las causas de la delincuencia y sobre lo que es, para mi, el eje fundamental sobre el aborto , es decir, la libertad de decidir sobre tu propio cuerpo y todas las consecuencias sociales que tiene para una mujer vivir en una sociedad que le prohibe el aborto.
    Por eso, concuerdo con lo que dice Kalise en su primer párrafo sobre las libertades civiles. Pero creo que leyó mal al resto porque nadie en los comentarios ha hablado en contra del aborto. Al revés, al parecer todos lo apoyan. El punto es que aquí se están discutiendo distintos argumentos para apoyarlo. En ese sentido yo no concuerdo con los argumentos expuestos en el articulo, me parecen relaciones poco complejas que llegan a soluciones simplistas.
    Al final el tema el fondo sigue igual de intocable.

  • el nico

    chanchisco pegate un freestyle, si vos soy rapero

    y en serio, cisarros hay en todos lados, si la prensa se diera una vuelta por los centros del sename y los conociera de verdad antes de profetizar por la necesidad de que todos los niños crezcan encarcelados, cambiaría un poco la percepción fatalista que están imponiendo.

    no obstante, es importante enfatizar algo: ya es hora de cortar con el estigma pobreza = delicuencia… eso a lo único que conlleva es a aumentar el miedo, a perder la confianza en la gente y a separar y segregar aún más nuestra sociedad.

    y sobre el aborto, es un derecho de toda aquella persona humana que tenga vagina, y punto. No corresponde mandar a abortar a la gente porque es pobre o porque se presume que sus hijos serán delincuentes, eso es inhumano, sumamente desconfiado, poco optimisma y bastante cercano a la idea del nazismo. No olviden que el gran hito que logra separar el régimen nacional-socialista de la dictadura nazi es la dictación de la ley que mandaba a esterilizar a todos aquellos que tuviesen enfermedades o no fuesen arios (como mecanismo de control de la natalidad), una clara muestra de discriminación, represión y segregación social que no puede volver a repetirse.

  • pepo

    Caro C. tiene razón respecto al análisis que hacen en el artículo, pero no sé si con el del paper de Levitt y Donohue.

    (Aunque podría haber recomendado también un libro de econometría: la bioestadística es a la biología lo que la econometría a la economía).

    Existen mil correlaciones positivas en la naturaleza. Por ejemplo, alguien podría decir que a mayor estatura, mejores resultados en la PSU. Pero si no controla por otras variables relevantes, el resultado de todo el estudio no sería más que una simple correlación. No podría atribuir a la estatura una mayor inteligencia o proclividad a obtener mejores puntajes. Recuerdo que una investigadora de una universidad católica gringa se tiró a los leones diciendo que las familias «bien constituidas» aportaban más al crecimiento económico que las demás…

    Levitt y Donohue controlan por prisioneros y policías per capita, «generosidad», leyes de armas, «consumo per capita de cerveza», desempleo, pobreza, etc. A primera vista parece ser un estudio serio (y seguramente lo es), pero hay varias críticas respecto a la metodología y los datos que se usaron (algunas acá: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impact_of_Legalized_Abortion_on_Crime). El estudio no es para nada concluyente (de hecho, se hizo en base a datos de un sólo país). Fue el primer paso para que otros se pongan a investigar, pero creo que falta mucho para probar la supuesta causalidad y hacerla ley.

  • Javier

    Si a la eugenesia!!! (ahi tienen comentario NAZI)

    Interesante articulo.

  • Daniela

    Oye fascista, siempre hay alguien que te tilda de fascista en alguna columna.
    Pero la wea que más me gustó es «El desarrollo humano es un problema técnico». He ahí la clave.
    Aunque para mí, el aborto simplemente se debe basar en la decisión de una mujer de querer ser madre o no. Más encima, corres el riesgo de que te desangres en un hospital tras una cesárea!

  • Claudio

    Estos temas son super delicados. No es llegar y decidir sobre la vida de una persona. A pesar de que creo que en muchos casos un embarazo no deseado es un problema, siempre será algo dificil de enfrentar tner que tomar la decisión de un aborto. Creo que no es tan simple como lo exponen, en verdad.

    Si fuera por eso matemos a todos los flaites…simplemente no es justo.

    Lo mejor sería tener una buena ley que explicitara en que casos y condiciones es factible el aborto, y que se incluyera apoyo psicologico a quienes deciden por este camino para que decidan a conciencia y bien informados de las consecuencias que su decision puede tener. No es tan facil decidir sobre la vida de una persona, los que lo hemos vivido a veces nos cuesta dormir tranquilos.

    Saludos y paz.

  • Cisarro es el proto-delincuente del futuro.
    Desde chico, una mierda.

    Saludos!

  • uf, igual agota ser siempre el nazi, el cuico o el facho. en este caso, se me a tildado de lo anterior por el simple hecho de reproducir – como introduccion a un tema mas amplio – una teoria que esta bastante lejos de haber sido propuesta por mi, cosa que sabrian si se dieran el trabajo de leer las citas.
    yo creo que el tema no es el derecho al aborto lo que pueda estar en dicusion pq esa cuestion se da por hecha, es una aplicacion practica del mismo que, combinada con otros factores puede producir resultados positivos.

  • luc

    acá hay una perspectiva interesante respecto al debate en cuestión http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjW4i67YC04&feature=related

  • jorgert

    o sea…dicho en otras palabras…hay que habortar a las minas chanas que quedan embarazadas….asi de simple…ya que tenemos un futuro delincuente chico…

  • Pedro Pardo

    Este artículo es más FACHO que su autor FRANCISCO CAMPOS!

  • isidora

    cero comprension de lectura cabritos

  • cristobal.castillo

    no hay duda de eso

  • la maña

    Maten a eso perros de mierda, ojala antes de nacer, castren a los flaites y a las mujer t de cobre ojala de por vida, y a cisarro culguenlo en la plaza de armas.

  • lo que pasa nachito es que te crees muy inteligente, pero lamentablemente no lo eres. simplemente eres un troll autoreferente, encerrado en un cuchitril esperando ganarse el reconocimiento de otros con comentarios y actitudes politicamente correctos, pero sin fundamente.

    hijo mio, no nos pisemos la capa entre super heroes. aqui no hay ninguna eminencia de hardvard para descalificar de esa manera ni para desacreditar lo que un par de expertos dicen citando un par de autores que solo son referentes en una paraciencia chanta y que en tu universidad (igual que en la mia) resulta infinitamente mas chanta, sobre todo si esta practica por individuos como tu.

    el mundo no es como lo dicen los foros o como lo muestra tarantino. hijo mio, el mundo a veces es un «tanto» mas complicado que eso y derrepente hay que ser capaz de usar el cerebro para pensar y no el culo, como lo acabas de hacer.

  • luc

    tan finitos los wns.
    abortense la lengua los coshinos culeaos malhablados.
    y a todos los demás que se creen tan defensores de las minas pobres y su derecho a tener guagua. saquen la raja del computador un ratito y dense una vuelta por una pobla a preguntar a una cabra de 16-20 si no le hubiera gustado tener la opcion de tener o no al guasho culeao que tiene que cuidar sola pq el shoro que la embarazó solo pq era la mina mas rica de la pobla y probarse ser el mas shoro la dejó tirá.
    sacos de cacha.

  • Ignacio M.

    Eso ocurre en todos lados.

  • dust

    creo que a estas alturas, no hay gente mas detestable como la que defiende sus ideas a traves de descalificaciones personales. y hablando del tema, habría que ir cortando el hueveo ya, asumamos que si el estado compra tanques, aviones y metralletas, no son hueas de utilería sino son armas para matar gente, comunmente de paises vecinos que nos disputen algo. osea q ahi si se vale matar, y en otros casos no. y a los defensores de la vida, dejen de pajiarse (literal y metaforicamente),

  • No fue por Giuliani. Levitt muestra en el libro que el efecto de sus politicas fué un moco comparado con el aborto en la disminucion de la criminalidad. Campos no sabrá de estadisticas pero el autor del Freakonomics si las entiende. Ahora, legalizar la droga tendria un efecto muy superior al de el aborto en prevenir la delincuencia si la reforma es la adecuada, porque le quita el piso economico al crimen. Y lo dice conmigo Friedmann, que es un facho.

  • Donnie Darko

    Definitivamente aun hay quienes se limitan y fomentan el pensar basico de los hechos.. que aun creen en el mundo de amor y paz y donde el amor hacia el otro es la base del un mundo ideal. .donde son hipocritas considerando un hermano o alguien rescatable a ese flaite q te amedrenta en las calles, ese q destroza tu casa ,tus medios de transporte, ese q te intimida en la calle, ese que q te lleva a sentir impotencia por sus conductas de simio y que te lleva a ofuscarte con tu propio espacio y tu forma de vida… el mismo q cuando lo cogotean los odia..y piensa q deberian no estar o nos ser asi.. eso es sinismo porq todos sabemos lo aborrecibles q son, lo inncesarios q son, lo DESCLASADOS Q SE COMPORTAN.. es acaso lo q desean..??? es acaso eso lo q con ser moralistas hipocritas quieren??? andaaaa seamos honestos sea como sea de la manera q sea se debe evitar el colapso de una sociedad o una poblacion ya sea atraves de estudios y avances, de metodos y procedimientos de lucha y pensar que debemos considerar que lo q que se presenta aca son motivos suficientes para comenzar a pensar y dejar de limitarse a unos pocos que controlan todo..y que pena q algunos mandriles aun piensen asi.. promover la erradicacion de la iglesia en nuestras vidas. de dejar de considerar la derecha fascisita para regir nuestras vidas y asi mismo fomentar inmumerables formas de hacer de toda esta mierda de vida una wea JUSTA — Francisco Campos te apoyo y comparto lo q dices.. excelente foro ..excelente forma de hacer pensar al resto.. .y a nosotros Y DEJEN DE VER SOLO LO Q LES DICEN .PIENSEN MAS ALLA DE LAS COSAS…

  • jorgert

    LUC, toda la razon po perro!!!!..
    vayan a darse una vuelta a una pobla de aquellas y cambiaran de opinar tan lindo al estilo obama, que los weones fachos que los weones tontos que lo weones nazi y tanta wea….si la wea es simple….mano dura con estos hijos de mil containers de putas de somalia!!!!

  • Sería bueno ver los datos estadísticos que aparecen en Freakonomics, no quiero comprar el libro para verlos. Porque hay que tener cuidado con las correlaciones, hay correlaciones estadísticamente significativas entre el tamaño del femur y el CI, pero es dificil encontrar un marco lógico que explique eso.
    De cualquier forma, independiente de los datso económicos, una sociedad puede elgir el tener una ley de aborto o no, siempre y cuandoe esa decisión sea fruto de un consenso y habiendo estudiado sus consecuencias. Lo que pasa en Chile es que las leyes las proponen y aprueban unos pocos señores que creen que su opcion valórica representa a toda la sociedad.
    Hay que cuidar también el uso de la noción de «individuo peligroso» o «delincuente», esto lo digo desde mi Foucaultfilia.
    En resumen, considero que una sociedad puede permitir tanto el aborto como el criminalizarlo, siempre y cuando eso sea lo que al sociedad quiere y no lo que unos pocos quieren. El resto son solo argumentos para forzar al otro a tomar la opción valórica de uno, aún cuando sean veríodicos y evidentes.

  • heil main fuhrer

    Hemos encontrado a nuestro nuevo líder: FRANCISCO CAMPOS!!

    POR FAVOR SIGUE ESCRIBIENDO COSAS COMO ESTA, ESTA PATRIA PUEDE SER MUCHO MEJOR GRACIAS A GENTE COMO TÚ!!

    SIEG HEIL DISORDER!

    Axionchilena!

  • Israel

    Harto que desear elarticulo, yo soy pro aborto pero esto me parece una idiotez por decir lo menos.
    Que haya una kga de estudio con numeritos y graficos, de por medio enrealidad no avala nada, es pura chaya,, a una pelotudes… como si fuera el unico factor o almenos UNO DETERMINANTE.

    Me sumo a Ignacio M.
    Hay que ser muy saco wea!!!

    Me despido haciendo mi aporte a la finura:

    Francisco campos, anda a lavarte la raja!!

  • Panchy

    Bueno despues de leer este articulo y muchos mas… creo que suena descabellado algunas de estas cosas, lo que si estoy segura es que estoy a favor del aborto, pensamiento que hace años atras no era igual, pero les digo algo hay que estar en los zapatos de una joven, mujer, pendeja, flaite o persona como quieran llamarlo, por que analicen «tienes 18 años te has cuidado para no quedar embarazada, pololeas o andas con alguien que al saber que estas embarazada no te apoya, trabajas y ganas una caga de plata y con un monton de sueños y con el medio de decirle a tu familia que estas embarazada, mas encima depre por que no sabi que mierda hacer», todos los sueños murieron, tai sola, desde ese momento sabi que tu cabro chico va a crecer sin papa y sin nadie que te ayude, tu futuro es trabajar, trabajar y darle lo que mejor puedas a tu hijo pero «lo mejor que puedas» no es lo optimo que el necesita, el amor es muy lindo pero con amor no solucionas todo,,, despues que me sucedió todo esto y lo pense durante unos dias,,,,decidí hacerlo, no es facil tampoco , pero lo hice y me costo al principio aceptarlo pero hoy tengo 26 años y miro hacia atras y creo que es la mejor desicion que tomé, y espero que todos los que opinan a favor o en contra se detengan un momento a pensar que no todos los niños no deseados van a ser delicuentes, pero si van a tener y pasar por necesidades en algun momento como todos, pero creo que la falta mas grande es crecer sin padre y con una mama que tiene que sacarse la cresta trabajando y conformarte con verla los fines de semanas cuando tiene libre, que cuando quiere tomarse un helado y tu no teni pa comprarlo tiene ke mirar o que tenis que conformarte con enviarlo a un colegio publico que actualmente a veces no sabes si tu hijo va a aprender a leer o a como asaltar u otras cosas, por que lamentablemente esa es nuestra realidad, es por eso que no justifico mi actuar pero no me arrepiento, pero si tengo algo claro no lo volveria a hacer….y ahora espero algun dia ser madre y estar junto a mi hijo o hijos y brindarles todo lo que ellos necesitan y se merecen, pero trabajo y estudio muy duro para llegar a lograrlo…. creo que aqui lo que mas pesa no es lo politico si no que lo moral la sociedad pesa mucho y cuando abortas eres la pero persona que pisa esta tierra es una falta grave socialmente pero a caso no es tambien una falta grave traer un niño al mundo no pudiendo darle y segurar su bienestar,, en los casos en los que se puede hacer porque cuando una perosona ejemplo alcoholica tienen una guagua, se va a preocupar de comprar leche o de compara vino, o las dos y la plata no le alcanza pbviamente ese niño esta mucho mas expuesto a tener una vida con falencias.

    Bueno espero que reflexionen y lo vean mas que una cosa politica que si es nazi o facha o como sea

    Xau

  • Cote Berrios

    todos los pendejos qliaos q andan postean hueas, de q el articulo es nazi, de q campos es facho y todas esas hueas son los q deberian ir a lavarse la raja con vidrio. pa gritar nazi o facho si sirven pero pa hacerse cargo de los problemas no son capaces de levantar un deo. puta q suena lindo decir q todos tienen derechos y la huea, peros son uds mismos los q dp andan llorando como maracas pq tuvieron atados con los flaites. eso se llama doble standar por q tanto q critican la lesera de articulo pero no proponen ninguna solucion, puras utopias de pendejo punk trasnochado q se ralla la mochila o de intelectualoide de cerro alegre, pura mierda q no contribulle a nada.
    como dijeron por ahi, aer si tienen idea lo q es trabajar en un hogar lleno dependejos malos hijos de delincuentes o protituas, ahi se van a dar cuenta de como funciona la hueaita y hasta ahi no mas les va a llegar la famosa tolerancia pq muchos son super choros pa citar y pa hacerse los vivos y pa tratar de sacohuea al resto pero apostaria mis gomas a q ninguno a estado en su perra vida donde las papitas queman y a q lo unico q se dedican es a correrse la paja y andar opinando hueas.
    si son tan choritos vengan a verme al centro abierto rosita de la pto aysen en viña ypregunte por ma jose berrios estoy de las 9 a las 2 y podemos hablar con mas calma y de paso le pego un par de charchasos por huea.
    campos culiao, muevete con las entras que te pedi.

  • La trabajai de malo Cote Berrios. Como tan barza de andar pidiéndo entradas luego de esa succión.

  • Juancristobal

    » puras utopias de pendejo punk trasnochado q se ralla la mochila o de intelectualoide de cerro alegre, pura mierda q no contribulle a nada. »
    Quedo echo mierda jajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja
    Buena la información , no le veo lo «naci» jaja al articulo , sigan asi .
    Saludos

  • angelica

    define delincuencia…

    no por ser flaite como los ejemplos populares que pusiste, tiene que ser delincuente. Actualmente hay mas delincuentes en el Gobierno que en las calles.

    Snob!

  • hace mucho tiempo atras, lei acerca de este tema… y como soy una persona que trabaja en salud, conozco bien el tema de los abortos y de´todo lo que conlleva el asunto.
    aunque a la mayoria de las personas que han comentado aqui les parece descabellado el tema, no esta tan alejado de la realidad… y muchas de estas niñas que son madres solteras y que viven en ambientes de riesgo social, han tratado de abortar, argumentando que el ambiente en el que estan inmersas no es el adecuado para criar a un niño.
    sin embargo, para aprovar una lei de aborto, es necesario que la educacion sexual sea sin inhibiciones, explicita… y en este pais, ni siquiera hablar libremente de sexo se puede.

    un dato… en clinicas renombradas de la capital se practican abortos… porque nadie se entera?? porque cambian diagnosticos…

    adios.

  • David Guzman

    creo que en un pais bananero como chile, es natural que los sectores politicos se enrronchen y se asusten contal de no sacar a la virgencita del tapete y que ella tome deciciones.
    muy buen tema ojala exponerlo mas, siempre que veo en la tele cuando muestran campamentos aparece una señora gorda, con 7 crias atras de ella, todas sin zapatos, da lata y pena, creo que los que nos estan a favor del aborto son retrogrados
    y aqui el nazismo no tiene nada que ver, por el contrario, es la mujer la que debe velar por su planificacion familiar o acaso no es facista obligarla a tener el hijo y sentenciarla abajo del c3 d e?

    seig heil jesus !
    jajajjaa

  • Clara Vander

    Me da lo mismo si legalizan el aborto por razones fascistas o porque ya es medio día en China. No me interesa que la gente lo entienda y lleguen todos a un acuerdo ni nada de esa mierda.
    Solo quiero que lo legalicen.
    Creo que los hombres no tienen ni voz ni voto en este asunto, no hay manera de que aseguren que formaran parte de la vida de los hijos que tienen, ni que financiaran lo que les corresponde tampoco, pero las madres están en otra posición completamente distinta, porque TIENEN que.
    Cuantas madres esforzadas conocemos todos que jamás se han dado un puto lujo en la vida por velar por sus hijos año, tras año, señoras gordas (como decía alguien antes) llenas de niños (que dependen solo de ellas) y que lamentablemente las alejan de cualquier sueño o estándar de vida distinto que alguna vez soñaron tener. No accedieron a ningún tipo de educación superior, no viajaron ni fueron de intercambio jamás, no se compraron propiedades ni autos, no se fueron de vacaciones a lugares exóticos, no… Seamos realistas limpian wáteres desde hace mil años para que sus hijos «tengan un futuro mejor» que si son mujeres, quién sabe si lo tendrán, porque quizás se embaracen adolecentes también y terminen en las mismas….
    La vida de todas esas mujeres fue robada por un gobierno que no les permite elegir qué hacer con su propio cuerpo… eso ya no se puede corregir, no se puede retroceder el tiempo y cambiar las cosas para que la señora pese 50 kilos menos, sea quizás una profesional con un buen sueldo, que viajo y se lleno de experiencias, adquirió algunos bienes, o por último, se consintió un par de caprichos y después fue madre, cuando decidió que era el momento correcto, como debería ser. La “vida real”, que se pasa en un abrir y cerrar de ojos, no tiene nada que ver ni con religiones ni conservadurismos absurdos, tiene que ver con ofrecerle a las personas la mayor cantidad de posibilidades de tener un buen estilo de vida, esa que se pasa volando, como el mundo está separado en países, esa es la misión de cada país. Que nuestro país le hiciera lo que le hizo a todas esas señoras gordas es aberrante por decir lo menos…

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